The Ibotenic Acid Studies Are Incomplete
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The name of the study is
The Toxicological Pathologic Study of Amanita muscaria in Sprague-Dawley Rat
AND interestingly they found NO damage to the brain even though it was injected which lends creedence to what I have continued to say, injecting it straight into a brain is not the same thing as ingesting it. I will continue to claim personally that it is NOT toxic at low and reasonable doses. i posted here before on Ibotenic acid and defended this claim. WTF is science's obsession with injecting shit FFS?
I am skeptical of this study when they do like many researchers and discuss at great length, the amatoxins in the deadly amanitas then jump right into discussing how they are going to test muscaria. These are two different living things, with different morphologies and physiologies. Muscariods to do not have amatoxins. It is irresponsible science. When they do that, I immediately am skeptical of the rest of the study. Not only because if they can’t get the introduction right, what else can they not do correctly?
Amanita muscaria appears to be the most toxic in appearance, with muscarine and bufotenine being the main constituents causing vomiting and diarrhea and exhibiting neuropsychological and psychological effects by muscarine [7,18]
Saying muscaria appears to be the most toxic is just nonsense. They cite numbers 7 and 18 in their citations for claiming muscarine and bufotenine are the main constituents causing sickness. Number 7 doesn’t mention muscaroids or muscarine. Number 18 again discusses the class of amanitins, and nothing in that publications mentions muscarine or bufotenine. It was established long ago that muscarine is not the main toxin responsible for gastric issues in the muscaroids. There is no date on this research but they cite research from 2007 so it is at least reasonable to expect some simple research into the actual toxin here. There are only trace amounts of muscarine in muscaroids. Not saying it can’t cause issues, but their claims of it being the main toxin are decades old and wrong. And bufotenine? Seriously?
They bought amanita muscaria and extracted at room temp using a buffered solution so that no decarb would take place. This means it was mostly ibotenic acid that they are testing.
In the results and discussion they write about ibotenic acid in para 7.
In the next paragraph they write this:
The blood analysis values of the administration group were significantly different from those of the control group, and all of the SD rats used in the experiment were observed to have no abnormality in health. The mushroom poisoning showed fulminant hepatic necrosis and acute renal failure due to amatoxin, a deadly toxin contained in mushrooms. So now it’s amatoxins they administered?
Under the histopathological section, they state that no brain lesions were found. This is not what all previous studies have said about ibo being neurotoxic but those were injected into the brains. It seems injection into the body creates a different physiology (which I think we all expected).
They go on to state:
There are many ways to classify poisons, but according to the symptoms, they are classified into seven groups, each of which exhibits characteristic latent period, target organ, and clinical symptoms [16,18,24]. The symptoms of poisoning by poisonous mushrooms vary according to the toxic substances contained in the mushroom, and the mushrooms contain a variety of chemical components. Poisoning toxicity is mainly caused by A. phalloides, A. virosa, and A. verna in the genus Amanita, phalloidin and amatoxin in the mushroom contain two types of poisons. Phalloidin acts on the actin polymerase-depolymerase cycle, which causes cell membrane dysfunction, but this is not clinically important. Amatoxin inhibits nucleoplasmic RNA polymerase, Inhibits protein synthesis and can cause necrosis of intestinal epithelial cells, hepatocytes, and kidney tubular cells [2,4,18,21]. Histopathological examination of SD rats repeatedly administered for 3 weeks or more showed degeneration and division of pericytes in the liver tissue. However, A. muscaria seems to induce toxic pathologic lesions in the liver when repeatedly administered over a long period of time, considering that damaged tissues can not be found in the liver tissues of SD rats that were autopsied 1 week and 2 weeks after administration. Serum BUN and creatinine levels were normal in the kidney, but histopathological examination revealed the infiltration of inflammatory cells and necrosis of tubular epithelial cells.
Again mixing amatoxins with ibotenic acid.
I believe they may have ordered amanita muscaria, especially if that’s what they wanted to study. And it may be possible that’s what they used for this study and that means the actual data may be accurate. IF SO then it seems there’s no brain issues but there are with liver and kidney after 3 weeks of heavy use of dried amanita extracted at room temp and ph controlled.
Long term ingestion:
A. muscaria was administered at a concentration of 16.5 mg/kg twice a week for 4 weeks. If my math is right that’s:
16.5 mg = .0164g per kg
So for me=
I am 56 kilograms times 16.5 mg= 924mg, that’s almost a gram
150 pound person= 68kg
68kg X .0164g = 1.11 grams twice a week for 4 weeks. This is ibotenic acid.
I know people who microdose ibotenic acid for ADD and I smoke the mushroom but have no idea how much decarb happens when it’s burned like that. The people I know microdosing it take 1/5 that. So some dose studies are needed now. I have been asking for this kind of information for a while now. My problem is they seem to lump all toxic amanita together and didn’t even know what toxic thing they were studying. So, still a long way to go. Maybe there’s a bias in the scientific community for ibotenic acid studies and this was a way to get around that. IDK
The other issue is that they made an extract we have no idea how to dose it. Is this 15.5 of the extract they made? If so, it is highly concentrated and there’s no equivalency given. There is no way to equate this study to anything or to cross it to humans when the dosing isn’t clear nor is it clear what toxin they used.
This following study is from 2020 and is about Glutamate toxicity and in the pre-study discussion it gives details about the history of the use excitotoxins including ibotenic acid so you can see all of the different excitotoxins science has used, what they do and why ibotenic acid is being used, still injected into brains.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnins.2020.00927/full
IBOTENIC ACID AS MEDICINE
VanPatten, S.; Al-Abed, Y. The Challenges of Modulating the ‘Rest and Digest’ System: Acetylcholine Receptors as Drug Targets. Drug Discov. Today 2017, 22, 97–104. [Google Scholar]
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnmol.2016.00028/full
Also, if they are causing lesions by injection through the cholinergic pathways, it is affecting the cholinergic pathways, as discussed here, with the opening statements:
The neurotoxic effects produced by ibotenic acid (IA) induced chemical lesions of the central nervous system (CNS) cholinergic system were examined on the opioid peptidergic system in adult rats. Forebrain cholinergic systems were bilaterally lesioned by the infusion of IA (1 or 5 micrograms/site) into the nucleus basalis magnocellularis (NBM). One week after the injections, the animals were sacrificed, and activities of acetylcholinesterase (AChE), choline acetyltransferase (ChAT) and concentrations of beta-endorphin (beta-End) and Met-enkephalin (Met-Enk) were measured in different brain regions.
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1995-36006-001
The major effects that we know of from ibotenic acid are the spasms in both smooth and skeletal muscle in higher doses. Spasms are caused via the cholinergic pathways and diseases that cause spasms like parkinson's and dystrophies etc are diseases of the cholinergic pathways.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK526134/
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11062-005-0034-2
Showing no brain lesions with muscular injection.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315690737_The_Toxicological_Pathologic_Study_of_Amanita_muscaria_in_Sprague-Dawley_Rat
